WARNING: MAJOR spoilers from The Penguin episode 3.

Matt Reeves' The Batman universe as the journey of Oz Cobb gets further complicated. While the popular DC foe is getting further fleshed out in the HBO drama, The Penguin TV show is also getting even deeper with some of the key players in the series.

Following the events of The Penguin episode 2, episode 3 sees Oz and Sofia Falcone begin their distribution of the new drug, Bliss, allowing the s to feel absolute joy in a post-Riddler attack world. The Penguin episode 3 also gives a bigger look into what Victor Aguilar's life looked like prior to the devastating events of the 2022 movie. As Victor makes his choice whether to stay or leave Oz, The Penguin episode 3 sets up for a journey that involves a crash or two.

Returning for the third week of The Penguin, Screen Rant sat down with Zobel again to get all the details of what went into making episode 3. Zobel explained all the technical aspects required to connect Victor's story to The Batman ending and where his dynamic with Oz will go in future episodes. Zobel also discussed the possibility of returning to Reeves' The Batman universe in the future and shared what's in store for The Penguin episode 4.

Director & Executive Producer Craig Zobel Breaks Down The Penguin Episode 3

Screen Rant: I love that a recurring theme for your episodes is that each episode starts with a flashback of each character. We had Oz in episode 1. In episode 2, we had Sofia, and now, in this episode, we get to see from Victor's point of view, the night when everything went to hell. How tricky was it to recreate that sequence? Some of the elements that we see at the end of The Batman are there, but now, from his point of view, what were some of the tricky technical aspects of that?

Craig Zobel: Just making that flood was pretty technical - in order to really figure out how to do that, we found very cool locations in downtown Manhattan and Chinatown that helped us all have some sort of geography to go off of and say, 'Well, if there was a big wall here with water,' we were all able to look at the space and say, 'This is how this would damage that,' and 'Oh, maybe we should put Victor's house right there so that you pan from one to the other and can see the wall hit the wall.'

Figuring out that geography was useful early on, I think, for really for everybody, including the actors, to be able to look and to have Rhenzy say, 'If that's where my parents are, then there's where the sea wall is.' That's very traumatic instead of being in a green room where it's just imagine a thing and then imagine another thing. It was helpful, I think, in that way, but it took a lot of preparation and mechanics to figure it out, for sure.

Telling Victor's History In The Penguin Episode 3

"...Inside of Victor's POV, he feels trapped there."

We see the damage done to his psyche very much throughout the episode, especially in the club when he has that PTSD episode, and we see from his point of view as he's seeing when the flooding is happening, he sees all the bodies just flash from him. What were the discussions of how much do we show? One of the benefits of being on HBO is you can show more, as opposed to a broadcast network. How graphic did you want it to be?

Craig Zobel: All the decision-making was really led from a point-of-view of character and just that we often see these superheroes and super-villains fight, and the common man is not really added into that equation. To be able to actually spend time and get to understand that this is what this kid's experience had been. in fact, he mentions when he has Graciela over at Oz's house, they mentioned that there were probably encampments [that] fully ruined their lives really, really devastated. Some of that all came out of research and looking at Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. I just found that to be such an interesting conversation that I don't know I have seen exactly in these kinds of shows.

It really does talk about class, I feel, in a way that doesn't ever happen in the rich neighbourhoods, we know what the rich neighbourhoods are. They're on the other side of that bridge. They are where the Falcones live, [which] we saw in [the] last episode, and that didn't get flooded. Those people that are very far away from what that universe is. I think it was overall an important conversation to be trying to have in of partly what we're going to see Oz do, which is that Oz really starts to understand that there are differences between the way that the Falcones have run the city and the way that he could run the city by virtue of knowing the lived experience of these people in a different way.

Maybe I'm reading much too much into that, but as we see the dynamic between Victor and Oz, really get to a lot of interesting points in episode 3, would you say that Oz is, at this point, not only Victor's need of a system, but also his search for a new family, in a lot of ways? Maybe it's just how great these two actors are and what you guys did with the directing and the writing, but it feels like Victor is looking at Oz as almost a new father figure, am I on the right track here?

Craig Zobel: Yeah, at least at minimum, he is a true mentor, and I think that they're becoming friends in a way, for sure. That's the intention, and I think that's interesting, as we get later into the episode and we see the scene in the nightclub in the bathroom, we see that Victor has been wrestling with what he is doing there, for now, two and a half episodes and has not forgotten that Oz can be cruel and can kick you into a grave! [laughs]

I think it's truly inside of Victor's POV, he feels trapped there. He feels like, 'This is a guy with the resources and pettiness to come after me or people that I love if I try to escape.' But Oz, I don't think sees it that way necessarily. I think Oz is like, 'But I'm being generous. Why would you want to be a part of this?' I think he's legitimate when he says, 'Do you think I'm keeping you here?' I think that that's a shock to Oz because I think Oz has actually started to feel some kinship to Victor at that point. It hurts him.

That's why I think it's interesting when he comes back in the end, I would say with a bang, but more of a crash, because I did not expect that. Can you confirm to me, did Victor actually kill the guy he ran over or is he just knocked out? I'm just thinking that either he's dead or he is really, really going to be at a hospital for a long time to hospital. Will this now haunt Victor because of the idea of almost taking a life? How does he deal with that going forward?

Craig Zobel: We'll get to learn a lot more of that in the episodes, but yeah, I think that Victor is kind of stuck with a stark choice, and I think because he's been in the bathroom and because he's seen what Oz's reaction is, surprises Victor. I don't think that he is mad, and he doesn't feel like he's been heard, I don't necessarily think. But I don't think he was anticipating that reaction from Oz and when he has the opportunity to leave and go away and chooses not to, he is really committing to being in this criminal life and then immediately has to make the choice to hurt someone, [by] driving a car [over] someone.

Craig Zobel On Oz Seeing Himself As The Mob Of The People In The Penguin

Speaking of Oz, this episode really gives us a greater sense of his manifesto going on here, and again, maybe I'm reading too much into things, but do you think it's fair to say that he believes that he's the hero Gotham City actually needs? You were talking about it before about the fact that Oz has been through these point-of-views, that Oz is not middle class, he's not high class, he's at the bottom. Does Oz see himself as the hero of his own story in a lot of ways?

Craig Zobel: Yeah, I think that he is starting to realize the strength of his perspective and how persuasive that can be, and for sure, he's starting to understand that. I do think he's starting to understand that he's almost the mobster of the people, which is what he sort of has [become.] In the very first thing we see of him in the very beginning of episode 1, when he is talking to Alberto, he's talking about this mob that was the local, Rex Calabrese, [who] knew everybody's name, [who]everybody loved and was of the people in a way. That is kind of what Oz is starting to realize [that] he does want to be.

The Penguin Episode 3 Furthers The Complex Oz And Sofia Dynamic

"She has shown him kindness, and he is allowing himself to be vulnerable."

One of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Sofia really confronts him, going like, 'You stabbed me in the back, Oz. You didn't have my back whatsoever.' I was not expecting Oz to get teary-eyed. Are those real tears or is this just Oz's way of trying to navigate and surviving through another situation? Colin plays it so well, but I really couldn't tell if Oz is actually feeling bad for what he did to Sophia or is he just playing her?

Craig Zobel: I don't think he's just playing her. I think that's true, I think he feels that they would be good partners, in a way, and I think that there's a part of him that knows that she has shown him kindness, and he is allowing himself to be vulnerable there. He's also enjoyed being with her, they're pretty good partners at times when they're talking to them in the nightclub and when they're confronting Johnny Vitti. I think, weirdly, what's interesting about Oz is that he can hold both of those things at the same time.

He can be genuine in his apology to her and say, 'Look, I'm not a made man,' he keeps pointing to himself, 'You think a guy like me is able to get this stuff? This was hard to get. I'm not like you.' I think he's genuinely apologetic now. He also fully murdered her brother and has concocted this total backstabbing scheme with the Moronis. But I think that he is weirdly able to do both, he's able to have both of those thoughts in his mind equally, which is what's so great most about the character and about how Colin plays him. I cannot say enough how awesome it is to see someone emote with three and a half hours of latex on their face, and still able to resonate like that. She's great in Ithat scene too, that's really my favorite [scene.]

Craig Zobel On The Penguin's Bliss Drug Storyline

It's interesting that Gotham's new drug is all about joy, especially because this is very much for people trying to overcome what happened at the end of The Batman. But I have to ask, was it ever tempting to have the drug be something about getting more strength or being able to use it in defense, maybe protecting themselves by getting people scared? Why is the drug more about joy and not so much about, let's say, Venom or fear if you know where I'm going with this...

Craig Zobel: [Laughs] I know what you are doing!

I'm a comic book fan, I got to ask these questions!

​​​​​​​Craig Zobel: They experiment with drugs at Gotham, and this is a euphoric drug keeps you happy and docile. But also, I genuinely think the euphoria is, I genuinely think that when you hear Sofia's pitch about the drugs, saying, 'Oh, people need this right now,' she's like, 'Trust me,' I think that's very legitimate on her point is [that[ the average person has been through a lot. All of a sudden, Gotham isn't very kind to its residents. Let's give them something to have a little bit of enjoyment instead of fear. I know where you're going [laughs] I can't tell you anything about any fear drugs, simply because I don't know anything about that.

A Return To The Batman Universe & The Penguin Episode 4 Teases

"I want to see where Matt takes it in the next installment."

As you wrap your time on The Penguin, I know that Matt is looking to expand his universe with more The Batman spinoff shows. Is there another corner of this Gotham City that he's built that you would love to explore as a director? I know you can't say much about what he's cooking, but is there something you would want to explore personally from the Batman pathology in a potential spin-off project as a director?

​​​​​​​Craig Zobel: I have to say that this was satisfying in a lot of ways. This was really fun, and especially being able to, as you mentioned earlier, tell an episode from Oz's point of view and tell an episode from Sofia's point of view, and tell an episode from Vic's point of view. Because of that, that was really satisfying, and I'm happy to just be there. If there were other opportunities that are interesting, I want to see where Matt takes it in the next installment, so maybe ask me that question again [then.]

What have you seen of episode 4, and what can you tease our readers about it?

​​​​​​​Craig Zobel: What we're going to find out, [after] that explosive ending to episode 3, we're going to find out really how all that went down and what the ramifications of that are between Sofia and Oz. We'll get to really learn where the trajectory of the rest of their plan is going to go from here on out.

More About The Penguin Season 1

Starring Colin Farrell as The Penguin, the eight-episode DC Studios drama series continues The Batman epic crime saga that filmmaker Matt Reeves began with Warner Bros. Pictures’ global blockbuster “The Batman,” and centers on the character played by Farrell in the film. The first look was revealed today exclusively during Warner Bros. Discovery’s unveiling of the Max streaming service on the Warner Bros. lot in Los Angeles. The previously announced cast includes Colin Farrell, Cristin Milioti, Rhenzy Feliz, Michael Kelly, Shohreh Aghdashloo and Deirdre O’Connell, with Clancy Brown and Michael Zegen recurring.

The series is executive produced by Matt Reeves, Dylan Clark, Colin Farrell, Lauren LeFranc, who writes and serves as showrunner, Craig Zobel, who directs the first three episodes, and Bill Carraro. Based on characters created for DC by Bob Kane with Bill Finger, THE PENGUIN is produced by Reeves’ 6th & Idaho Productions and Dylan Clark Productions in association with Warner Bros. Television, where Reeves and 6th & Idaho are under an overall deal. 6th & Idaho’s Daniel Pipski also serves as executive producer and Rafi Crohn is co-executive producer.

Click here to check out our other The Penguin interviews:

• The Penguin Episode 1 Interview - Director/Executive Producer Craig Zobel
• The Penguin Cast Talk Colin Farrell's Prosthetics & Batman Fighting Tactics On The Red Carpet
• The Penguin Episode 2 Interview - Director/Executive Producer Craig Zobel

The Penguin airs new episodes on Sunday nights at 9 PM on HBO, followed by releases on Max.

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